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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 26, 2009 7:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: serious question

do you really think ?....that a planet .....that has existed for what some believe is MILLIONS of years...destiny can be altered by plastic bottles and car exhaust??????????????????????????????????????????
Some people's hot
Some people's cold
Some people's not very
Swift to behold
Some people do it
Some see right through it
Some wear pyjamas
If only they knew it

The pyjamas people are boring me to pieces
They make me feel like I am wasting my time
They all got flannel up 'n down 'em
A little trap-door back aroun' 'em
An' some cozy little *footies* on their mind

Po-jama people!
Po-jama people, people!
Lawd, they make you sleepy
With the things they might say
Po-jama people!
Po-jama people, people!
*Mother, Mary 'n Jozuf*, wish they'd all go away!

Po-jama people!
It's a po-jama people special...
Take one home with you & save a dollar today
Po-jama people!
Po-jama people, people!
Wrap 'em up
Roll 'em out
Get 'em out of my way

This post was modified by RBNW....new and improved! on 2009-10-26 14:38:41

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Poster: WanderingMunk Date: Oct 25, 2009 6:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

I started to try to write an honest and from-the-heart response to that post, when I remembered something my Grandfather, an extremely accomplished, widely respected and wise man once told me: "Son," he said, "stupid people just prefer to be stupid."

There is Truth, there is conjecture, there are Educated Guesses, there are Uneducated Guesses, there are lies told for gain or profit, for the forwarding of a cause or for self-aggrandizement, and there is just flat-out bullshit.

To each of us is given the responsibility to seek the Truth as faithfully and with as much integrity as possible, to do our best to intervene or not when we have the power to make a positive change, and to try to pass on Truth and Love as a gift for those who are yet to come.

Easy to say, difficult to do, but, then, why else would we be here?

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Oct 25, 2009 9:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

what a strange lot we are? we get angry with the very posters that trigger us into exploring and pondering our beliefs, share as a group quite different and sometimes new viewpoints, strengthen our resolve and test our weaknesses, learn from each other what we never would have learned on our own, share the music, share what we hope might to be some good cheer and laughter in a world otherwise...

nobody posts, nobody gets hurt

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 26, 2009 12:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

So, I am dying to know which side Wandering Monk is on...all that pondering and no slip of the tongue, eh?

And, yep, pretty interesting input in terms of who lines up where on which issues it seems to me.

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Oct 26, 2009 5:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

i took "try to pass on Truth and Love as a gift for those who are yet to come." as a call for moderation in terms of the western worlds "development", but now that you mention it, that doesn't necessarily draw a line in the sand...i kinda took exception to the over all tone of condescension (aren't wise people supposed to be beyond the "lower" human emotions like judgment?) but had to concede my own insecurities with the issue in my all-encompassing response

yea, it's been quite a topic allright, i still don't see the big deal in cutting Co2 emissions by 10%, overall it might do us a bit of good, as MandoJammer points out we are likely to be forced into cutting back our dependence on fossil fuels and consumerism habits soon anyways, but most people ain't gonna wanna change until they start to smell their own back-bacon burning

on a positive note, the crowd my son and daughter hang with do not appear to be any where near as materialistic as us older generations have been...and of course, i'm enjoying El Nino and the Global Warming Trend (sounds like a good name for a band, eh?) immensely, spent the afternoon outside in a t-shirt, a privilege even in July

thanks William for your thoughts and input on all this

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 26, 2009 6:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Yeah, I hope I didn't irritate the monk with my questions about what happens if you read religion into it (cause then we might as well stop discussing things since mine might advise to go forth and conquer and subdue and propagate and so on without restraint and yours might be something altogether more restrained and even handed) which seemed to be the case with some of the comments.

Enjoyed it all as well too!

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Poster: barongsong Date: Oct 27, 2009 12:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Franks Zappa's "Dumb all over and a little ugly on the side" has come to mind quite a lot lately for some reason.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 27, 2009 1:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

which leads to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O21St4SMs68

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Poster: pHudgepacker Date: Oct 25, 2009 10:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

How big of a group, I might ask ?

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Oct 26, 2009 12:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

not sure as to how many, sometimes get that creepy feeling it might only be myself and one other (anything is possible on a site that allows mults)

"Let it, rain let it pour, let it rain a whole lot more, cause I got them deep river blues", nice monitor test tease, sounds like Bobby's guitar (10/26/69)

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Poster: pHudgepacker Date: Oct 26, 2009 10:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

actually I enjoy the Big River from Ohio 10/26/72 and the Dark Star really can get cliffy wetter that a drag strip skidmark.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 26, 2009 5:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Hey WM! Haven't run into you yet hereabouts...was thinking more about yur comment as "...what we are given..." and "...why else would we be here..." and I would just observe some would answer "nothing is given" and "there just ain't no 'why' to it all"...point being, for some, the notion of an external validating force/entity/rationale is unnecessary, and reference to it sometimes conflicts with simple approaches...

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Oct 26, 2009 4:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Over 100 years ago, people worldwide began burning more coal and oil for homes, factories, and transportation. Burning these fossil fuels releases carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. These added greenhouses gases have caused Earth to warm more quickly than it has in the past.

How much warming has happened? Scientists from around the world with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) tell us that during the past 100 years, the world's surface air temperature increased an average of 0.6° Celsius (1.1°F). This may not sound like very much change, but even one degree can affect the Earth. Below are some effects of climate change that we see happening now.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Oct 25, 2009 11:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Yes I do, and if you don't your on the wrong end of science

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Oct 26, 2009 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

"that has existed for what some believe is MILLIONS of years"

"what some believe"??

ummm... try BILLIONS of years.

But yes, the answer is yes. It's already happening. And it's not just about bottles and car exhaust.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 26, 2009 8:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

LOL !

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Oct 26, 2009 8:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Ignorance is LOL, I guess.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 26, 2009 9:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Yes but there are decades of documentation!!


heheheheh

4 words

Al Gore's Penguin Army!!

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 26, 2009 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

She's just like a penguin in bondage, boy
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh...
Rennenhenninnahenninnenninahennn
Way over on the wet side
Of the bed (knirps for moisture)

Just like the mighty penguin
Flappin' her eight ounce wings

Lord, you know it's all over
If she comes atcha on the strut & wrap `em
All around yer head

Flappin her eight ounce wings, flappinumm

She's just like a penguin in bondage, boy

Shake up the pale-dry
Ginger ale
Tremblin' like a penguin
When the battery fail

Lord, you must be havin' her jumpin' through
A hoopa real fire
With some kleenex wrapped around a
Coat-hang wire

She's just like a penguin in bondage, boy
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh...
Rennenhenninnahenninneninahenn
Howlin' over to some
Antarcticulated moon

In the frostbite nite
With her flaps gone white
Shriekin' as she spot the hoop across the room

Lord, you know it must be a penguin bound down
When you hear that terrible screamin' and
There ain't no other
Birds around

She's just like a penguin in bondage, boy
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh...
She's just like a penguin in bondage, boy
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh...
Rennenhenninnahenninneninahennn
Aw, you must be careful
Not to leave her straps
Too loose

`cause she just might box yer dog
She just might box yer doggie
An' leave you a dried-up dog biscuit.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Oct 27, 2009 10:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

It's very sad the shrinking icecap and the plight of penquins and polar bears whose lives depend on it, joke about Al Gore all u like but to find humor in the extinction of another species thats lower on the food chain is......., makes me cheer for h1n1.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 27, 2009 11:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

It's human nature to find humour in the darkest of situations - it's one of our prime coping strategies. Jokes are a way of looking at things you might otherwise fear to face up to. All the best humour risks being offensive to someone and creates a tension - released by laughter - as you wonder how far over into taboo territory the joker will risk going.

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with penguin jokes:

A penguin was driving down the road one night, when the "Check Engine" light came on. He pulled over at the gas station, and the attendant said he'd take a look at it, and tell him what was wrong.

The penguin went over to a nearby shop and bought a vanilla ice cream. He finished the ice cream, threw the wrapper away, and walked back to the gas station, where the attendant was waiting for him.

"It looks like you blew a seal," said the attendant.

"Oh, no. It's just vanilla ice cream," replied the penguin.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Oct 27, 2009 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0PIdWdw15U

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 27, 2009 12:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OpuuAa7gdE

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Oct 27, 2009 12:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

That was sureal

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 27, 2009 11:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

LOL

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 27, 2009 10:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

I didn't mean to make fun of species extinction - I was only referring to the "Al Gore's Penguin Army" video on Youtube.

I tend to think along the big big big picture lines - nothing is forever -

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Oct 27, 2009 10:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

I wasnt familar w/ the sketch I feel like Mary Queen of Scots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwTqC2T6q4E

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 27, 2009 11:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Excellent

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Oct 27, 2009 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

"...but to find humor in the extinction of another species thats lower on the food chain is..."


are you implying that we should not pick on WT anymore??

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Oct 27, 2009 11:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

intercourse the penquin !

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 26, 2009 1:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

you would know!!!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 26, 2009 12:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question: web based analysis?

Ha--that was good, S&R...I was scanning thru and realized most of the folks I "know" here are on the same pg, at least with acknowledging the reality of recent temp changes. What surprises me about debates about "facts" (observable entities) and "actions" ("shoulds" etc., what we do about this and that), is that there is that so many folks today appear to get info about some issue off websites, etc., and draw conclusions on far too little information. And, so many, on both sides of many issues, are willing to yell "conspiracy!" etc., etc.

Scientists engage in conspiracies, politicians, liberals, conservatives, etc., etc., etc.

It's good to be skeptical, and frankly, I don't like ANYONE with a "cause" (because they usu have their fist out, and they have blinders on) on either side of an issue. But, it seems very few people today really use the old noggin to evaluate data, inputs from "experts", etc., etc., in an objective fashion...much more likely to jump the gun and get on a band wagon that fits their world view.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Oct 27, 2009 1:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question: web based analysis?

Leave it to Carlin to speak the real truth of it all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaKSvrmj-XE

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 26, 2009 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question: web based analysis?

Mr. TELL how much info do you really think one can draw conclusions from and how accurate is this info from lets say 1,262,501 years ago or even 2000 years ago! ya sure we can calculate based on the last thirty but geez thousands or millions IMO and MOO is well a wee bit far fetched....aint often right but ive never been wrong ......

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 26, 2009 1:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question: web based analysis?

That's a good question, but the fact (literally) is, if you believe in nuclear power, if you believe in the Periodic Table (ie, if you accept that modern day physics and chemistry are established, well entrenched sciences), then it's over and done with in terms of what we know of Earth's history the past 500k. And relatively well to 4.5kk.

Now, where it gets squishy, is, what to do about it? IE, whatever your take on it, can we change it, etc. This is where the naysayers have a pt--it is much harder to PREDICT what will happen with temps than to tell us what DID happen. This doesn't mean we can't look at the current graph and conclude "Holy Shit! the trend is UP!?" as a third grader can do that...but can we say "eliminate all plastic and it will have effect X!"? NO.

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Poster: B.C. Cox Date: Oct 25, 2009 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

just think, "you could be a pimple on the Creator's ass, so you should hope she doesn't scratch it !"

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Oct 25, 2009 6:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx6Owe9jQEU

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 27, 2009 9:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

" do you really think ?....that a planet .....that has existed for what some believe is MILLIONS of years...destiny can be altered by plastic bottles and car exhaust??????????????????????????????????????????"

First of all most believe Billions. The 5000 year folks don't even know how to read the original version of that fable they base their lives on.

Altered? Why not? Permanantly brought to it's demise by us? I personally don't believe that.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Oct 27, 2009 11:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Perspective is always good in these discussions. If you look at sea level rise since the last glacial period you'll see that we have essential been flatlining for the past 2000 years. Taking a nanosecond sample, at least in geologic terms, and extrapolating it out to some catastrophic conclusion is just not sound science.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Holocene_Sea_Level.png

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Poster: fireeagle Date: Oct 25, 2009 4:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

the temperature raises causing the water level 2 rise thus fuckin up the balance of continental tectonic plates which will start 2 drift harder and faster causing massive earthquakes and creating an enormous number of new volcanoes which, together with already existing 1s, will be permanently active blowing huge clouds of smoke into the stratosphere thus hiding the sun, lowering the temperature and commencing the age of total darkness which will destroy all life on the planet and will lead into the new ice age and later creation of new and improved life forms. then the sun will shine again

fuckin simple innit? its heaven and hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDItgSfVZ7g

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Oct 25, 2009 6:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

I saw Dio and Halford sing back2back nights at Jerryweather Post in August. Fucking awesome!

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Poster: veblen Date: Oct 25, 2009 6:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

dio!?!

dio has rocked for a long, long time,
now it's time for him to pass the torch.
he has songs of wildebeests and angels,
he has soared on the wings of a demon.

it's time to pass the torch,
you're too old to rock, no more rockin' for you.
we're takin' you to a home,
but we will sing a song about you.

and we will make sure that you're very well taken care of.
you'll tell us secrets that you've learned.
your sauce will mix with ours,
and we'll make a good goulash baby.
dio, time to go!
you must give your cape and scepter to me.
and a smaller one for kg.
go! go! dio! dio!

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Poster: vapors Date: Oct 26, 2009 5:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

it really gets cooking in part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKgMHKS-kdo

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 26, 2009 8:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Hey now , Fireeagle ,you should make a box office movie with your story about tectonic plates ,aerthquakes and other wild gigs all due to humanity 's careless behaviors ! Peuh ! Now you bummer dudes find out we don't care about your jugjement days/go to hells stories ,you don't know what to invent to get us on guilt trips on and on . Beurk ,bloated vanities from whak jaws stomping and screetching wornout morality bunks hoping to spoil our days with end of the world scenarios I won't settle for . NA!

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Poster: fireeagle Date: Oct 26, 2009 9:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=265276

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Poster: user unknown Date: Oct 25, 2009 5:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

serious answer...

Yes!

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 25, 2009 5:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

That's funny!

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Poster: vapors Date: Oct 25, 2009 2:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

It is usually best to think - doing so before speaking is one of my personal goals.

Apparently it is an acquired taste.

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 25, 2009 11:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Is it true you get to be a hot head thinking in your steambath , Vapors ?

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Poster: dizbuster Date: Oct 25, 2009 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

i think if you could watch the history of the world over those millions of years in fast motion you would see astonishing changes since man arrived on the scene. barring some catastrophic natural event i think it is quite likely that humans have done and will continue to do significant damage to the world including the atmosphere. i would add that blatent disregard for our planet and her not unlimited capacity will surely hasten our demise if not hers.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 26, 2009 8:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

id bet if someone invented cars that ran on plastic bottles for fuel....this planet will still exist in another billion years!!!

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Poster: buscameby Date: Oct 26, 2009 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

yes the "planet" will still be here, but your relatives will have gills because they will be living under water.

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Oct 26, 2009 8:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

The planet will exist, but we won't. Man does so many things to help destroy the ecosystem, it's sad. Cutting down rain forests, which causes less co2 to be converted back into oxygen. Factories and power plants dumping huge amounts of carbon and other carcinogens into the atmosphere, and dumping toxins into the water supply. Your car is not as big a culprit to greenhouse gasses as running your lawnmower for a half hour a week is. This leads to higher temperatures and more drought, killing crops. Farmers use fertilizers to grow better crops, which in turn leads to runoff into the waters, causing massive fish kills (we get them all the time here where I live) and those "lovely" algae blooms. Oxygen levels are dropping to a critical level in lakes and streams, destroying entire species of marine life, some of which we eat, and much of which is eaten by what we eat. Even the honey bee population has reached all time lows. Bees pollinate crops, which is the way crops can reproduce and have viable seeds for the next growing season. No the planet's not going anywhere, we are.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 26, 2009 9:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question - Which Brings us back to Bobby


I may be going to Hell in a Bucket

But at least I'm enjoying the Ride

(Insert Bobby scream here)

Yeah, at least I'm Enjoying the Ride

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Oct 26, 2009 9:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question - Which Brings us back to Bobby

And I bettin that "chopper" don't run on plastic.

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Poster: Won Hug Lo Date: Oct 26, 2009 10:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question - Which Brings us back to Bobby

it really depends on us. This was filmed in 2001, but has grown 3 or 4 times its size since then.
Now what ?
Shake your bones ?

GMAFB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxNqzAHGXvs

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Oct 26, 2009 9:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Right. The planet may have been here for 4.5 billion years, but humans only been around for a tiny fraction of that. We may not destroy the planet, but we might just kill ourselves off.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 26, 2009 1:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

oh you mean the middle east!

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Oct 26, 2009 9:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

S&R -

We can only hope we kill ourselves off....

We are only renters anyway. Time for some urban renewal if you ask me.

We're past Peak Oil, our lives are going to change so much in the next 20 years most of us aren't going to know what hit us.

I think it's time for Mother Earth to move past "Peak People"

ELE anyone?

This post was modified by Mandojammer on 2009-10-26 16:26:51

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Oct 26, 2009 11:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

This town ain't big enough for the 6,793,001,591 of us.

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Poster: Won Hug Lo Date: Oct 26, 2009 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

...but I believe there are enough bibles for everyone.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 26, 2009 1:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

ya....well im used to that ....i used to live in Dorchester!!!

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Poster: clashcity Date: Oct 26, 2009 10:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

http://ohermenauta.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/colorvisualize.jpg

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Oct 26, 2009 1:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Maybe 'someone' already has it planned for us........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 26, 2009 9:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

... well, the planet has only been here 6000 years, so I'm ready for the Rapture!!!

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Poster: angular Date: Oct 25, 2009 4:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

In honor of all the sheep out there who believe in this hoax, I just pulled the muffler off my mower and 20 year old car. I am also now throwing ALL my plastic in the landfill

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Poster: DayByDayRadio Date: Oct 25, 2009 4:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

Wow. It's morons who refuse to accept facts with decades of documentation who allow traitors like Bush in office. Wonder what your response will be when some sheep tries to wake you up to warn you that your house is on fire - probably the same.

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Poster: angular Date: Oct 26, 2009 4:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

I'm still waiting on the Africanized killer bees from the early 70's to come up through Texas and kill us all. Not to mention I'm still in my bunker holding out against SARS and the coming ice age.That is if I survive the anthrax scare. I think I'll wait til H1N1 is clear. That is if Man Bear Pig doesn't get me first.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Oct 26, 2009 5:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

LOL

man-bear-pig half man half bear and half pig

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103669/?searchterm=man+bear+pig

Totally serial

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 26, 2009 8:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

baaaa !

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Poster: fireeagle Date: Oct 26, 2009 11:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: serious question

http://www.action-pact.org/?source=edm